Katie Couric has watched the media industry transform from nearly every vantage point—as a network evening news anchor, as a digital pioneer at Yahoo, and now as the founder of Katie Couric Media, the independent outlet she launched in 2017 that has grown to nearly 40 employees.

In a conversation with Status, Couric didn’t hold back on the state of the industry she came up in. She gave broadcast networks a "D" for how they've handled pressure from Donald Trump and his administration, called the prospect of the Ellison family controlling both CBS News and CNN "very concerning," and reflected on why she saw the shift to digital journalism coming more than a decade before it became the default path for broadcast talent. She also weighed in on the turmoil at “60 Minutes” under Bari Weiss’ leadership, the struggles facing “CBS Evening News,” and which independent media ventures she thinks are actually built to last.

Below is the Q&A, lightly edited for style and clarity.

You spent decades inside corporate media. What do you think is the most existential threat facing legacy news organizations right now? Why do you think many people no longer trust mainstream news organizations?

I think those are two different issues, but maybe they’re interrelated. I think the biggest threat is the way that people are getting their news and information has completely and utterly transformed in real time. Many legacy media organizations were slow to adapt to the digital landscape. And while they’re trying to do more of it every day, it still feels that they’re behind the curve. The continued decline of linear television is obviously one of the biggest issues, especially for broadcast journalism.

The trust issue, I think, is connected to the fact that corporate ownership and journalistic integrity don’t always align. We’re seeing that certainly at CBS as this merger is waiting to get approved, and I think you see it at the Washington Post, where the interests of the owner [Jeff Bezos] and Amazon aren’t necessarily copacetic with the interests of investigative and take-no-prisoners journalism. So that’s impacting trust. There are also so many alternatives in terms of news sources, so they’ve become less relevant in the media landscape.

What grade would you give the broadcast networks’ handling of pressure from the Trump administration during his second term?

D. It’s not an F. But unfortunately, the stories coming out of “60 Minutes” about trying to direct the storytelling in a way that is less offensive to the administration or that fudges the truth is a total embarrassment. It’s hard to measure, but there is probably some anticipatory obedience, if you will.

I don’t think this is everywhere. But Brendan Carr has had a chilling effect on some media out there. There’s still very good reporting being done—I don’t want to paint everyone with a broad brush. But when corporate interests are trying to achieve something with the administration’s blessing, it’s hard for the news organizations to be completely independent and liberated to report and to seek out the truth.

Tony Dokoupil sits in the “CBS Evening News” chair, which you once occupied, and he’s struggling to draw 4 million viewers regularly. Do you think that’s related to Bari Weiss’ leadership, or is evening news just no longer resonating in the same way across the media industry?

I think it’s more of a trend line of network evening newscasts. I know they still command a decent-sized audience, but it’s a much older audience, and that’s been the case for quite a while. But I don’t think the publicity around Bari’s leadership and the chaos that seems to be pervasive within the halls of CBS News are helping. I’m not sure if it’s the primary driver of declining ratings. The [Stephen] Colbert firing might not have helped either. I think that probably has hurt the morning show, because TV viewers leave the channel on overnight.

How do you view a media owner like David Ellison? Does it concern you that the family could control both CBS News and CNN while having close ties to Trump?

It’s very concerning. I don’t know the Ellisons, but from everything I’ve read, Larry Ellison is a big supporter of Donald Trump, and that is concerning. Having control of too many media outlets is not a good thing. It’s cause for concern how they’re going to manage CNN and who’s going to be in charge there. I think it’s unclear at this juncture, so I’m taking a wait-and-see attitude right now. But anytime there’s massive consolidation, it’s not good for journalists, and it’s definitely not good for viewers, in my opinion.

As someone who worked at CBS News for years, what do you make of the changes Bari Weiss has made to “60 Minutes?” Considering how legendary the newsmagazine is, do you have any thoughts on how that could change going into the next season?

I don’t want to pass judgment. It will be interesting to see how the program coalesces around new hires. I don’t really know what Nick Bilton’s vision is for the program. I do think those stories, those pieces, are so good because they are so labor intensive and require a lot of time, a lot of original reporting, and a lot of care. We’ll see if the quality of the reporting and the quality of the pieces are still there.

There are a lot of people who are still really concerned about the changes that were made, whether they agreed with Scott Pelley’s actions, and when and where he expressed his displeasure. From everything I’ve read about the reporters who were fired, some of the stories behind the scenes were very troubling.

You launched Katie Couric Media in 2017, years before independent media became the default next step for broadcast talent leaving corporate media. What did you see then about where the industry was headed?

Part of it was out of my desire to continue to do the kind of work I was doing. I had two of the biggest jobs in broadcast television, and where I felt the most exciting place to go, back in 2012, was Yahoo. I thought digital journalism was going to be really important and the next big horizon for media. Yahoo was a great experience, but journalism was never really a part of their DNA. It was a tech company.

It was something that I was sensing as early as 2011, 2012, when I was at CBS. I started to witness the democratization of information with Twitter and other social media platforms. So it was pretty obvious that it was going to be the biggest competition for traditional linear television anyway.

Can you speak to how KCM has grown over nearly a decade? How have priorities shifted, and how is the business positioned going forward?

We have almost 40 employees now, and we continue to grow and evolve. Our business is really focused on a whole panoply of newsletters, which have close to 2 million subscribers. Then we have a website, but we are pretty much a social-first content company. We try to see where the puck is going and make sure we’re everywhere people are getting their news and information. Something I realized early on is that you have to iterate the content for different platforms. We have really amped up our YouTube strategy. I joined Substack about a year ago, which has been really interesting and provides revenue for us to help us do our work. We continue to do these valuable and important partnerships with companies that I feel comfortable working with and creating content for.

We have 10 million people across platforms, which is more than who watched me on the “Evening News.” 41 million views on YouTube year to date, 246 million views on Instagram, 186 million views on Facebook, 12 million views on TikTok, 71 million views on Threads. With my podcast, I’ve had 27.4 million downloads, 2.3 million downloads this season alone. I feel like you can never say you cracked the code because the code keeps changing. But I’m really enjoying my work, and I feel like I’m doing important work.

Do you think there’s more freedom in independent journalism to partner with companies and make your own editorial decisions in a way that almost straddles a line between content and news?

I do. If I were still at the “TODAY” show, I would be looking for partnerships and additional revenue streams with companies I felt aligned with. But there’s much less bureaucracy in independent media.

Many big-name anchors and correspondents have left corporate media since you started KCM, like Chuck Todd, Jim Acosta, Don Lemon, and many more. Who do you think is building a promising independent media operation that can actually last?

MeidasTouch is doing some exciting things. I’m friendly with Tara McGowan, who’s doing Courier News. Obviously, Tucker Carlson has been enormously successful in his venture. Megyn Kelly has been very successful in creating her content. I think a lot of people are out there becoming entrepreneurial. When you talk to them, they feel very liberated by their ability to make decisions quickly, to not have to deal with the bureaucracy.

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